The Job Forum

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you're listening to locally produced programming created in KUNV Studios on public radio KUNV 91.5

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Welcome to the Job Forum My name is Mana Azizoltani and I am a PhD student at Sahara College of Hospitality here at UNLV. On this show we discuss the journey through college and into the workforce with recent graduates of different disciplines.

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Welcome to the Job Force.

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All right, let's get this party started, guys. Today I'm here with one of my really good friends, John Nogue, who is a quantum engineer in Barcelona. And he's calling all the way from Spain to talk about his journey going through school and getting a job. John, do you want to give an introduction?

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Hello, everyone. It's nice to be here. I'm John. I'm a physics major from the University of Barcelona. Right now I am studying a master in quantum science and technology here in Barcelona as well. And I am also working in a company called K-Manjaro, which is a startup company, right there with quantum stuff, which I will talk about later. And I'm so happy to be here.

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Thanks, man. Thanks for coming out. So I want to start out just asking you about college. So I know that you started doing telecommunications and then changed your major later. Do you want to talk about sort of the journey into college? Because I know it's different in Spain.

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Yeah, so basically in Spain,

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we have some, well, especially in Catalonia, we have something called La Sal Actividad, which is something really like the SAT here you have in the States. It's a test that everyone has to take in order to enter the college. to college and here I didn't score really well in my first try.

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Well, you scored well. You scored well, but you know.

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I mean, yes, it wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough because studying physics here in Spain is difficult, it's a high grade. So I went to telecommunications and found that that was not for me and then luckily the next year I could switch to physics and that was another topic.

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Nice, yeah, okay, so what exactly do you, actually, so here in the US when we go to college, we have to take all these classes that have nothing to do with your major. So like you said, when you started, you wanted to study physics. But I know in Spain you actually take classes that have to do with your major. Do you want to talk about that?

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Yes, okay, I'm not an expert in what lectures you take in the US, but here in physics, it's really concrete. Like, from the first year to the last, we only take math and physics subjects, like nothing about philosophy or history or whatever. I think this is really great because since the very beginning of your college road, you get a really good insight of what science really looks like. I need stuff in the beginning, especially because everyone comes from different backgrounds, because in the previous high school, everyone has a different background. So it's tough in the beginning, but it's worth it in the end.

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Yeah, yeah, that's really cool. I wish that it was the case here, but you have to go through all those classes at the beginning. I guess it's good if you need to, I don't know, if you don't know what you want to do yet with your life and so you can kind of figure it out. But I think for someone that knows what they want to do, I think it's, I mean, it doesn't really make sense.

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Yeah, yeah, I agree. Because, for example, what happens here is that you have to decide with a lot of certainty what the university you have to what bachelor you have to go in. You have to decide that really when you are 10 years old. So you're not really able to decide. So I guess I mean, it's better. Because once you enter the bachelor's degree, then it's really concrete. So if you get, I don't know, if you get right a decision, then it's good for you. But if you get wrong, then you have to go try again and switch the bachelor's, which is not very nice because you lose one year, which is what happened to me. I missed one year, so I'm one year always behind from everyone from my age. Which is, I mean.

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Do you wanna talk about that, how that happened?

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Okay, because since I did my telecommunications a year, I did a whole year of telecommunications engineering, and then I had to switch to physics, then I had to start over. Because since every bachelor is so concrete, you cannot validate credits from different bachelors. So I had to start over, I had to take calculus again, algebra again, even though these special topics I had taken them in the telecommunications engineering because they're like common subjects, but I had to take them over because every college and every university has their rules and they want you to take like the whole path from the beginning. So this means that I have a twin brother and he finished one year after me. So I'm always, since that year, I have always been like one year before him.

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You mean after him?

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Oh, no, I get what you're saying.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you ended up graduating a year later than your brother. Yeah, so he got ready one year Before me Wow check that out I also you did you change schools when you went through when you change majors? Yes, yes, it is yes, you have to change everything because for example in the in the university I was taking telecommunications engineering engineering. They didn't have physics So I had to change to the University of Barcelona, which was the one of the only few that offers physics as a bachelor.

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Oh wow, check that out, that's pretty cool. Do you want to talk a little bit about your classes? Like, what were they like? Did you enjoy them? Maybe, do you have a professor or a class that might have stood out to you?

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Okay, I think everyone has good and bad professors. I think it's something that's common worldwide. But I really enjoyed, especially in Barcelona, I had the feeling that they looked after you. Especially in the first years, it felt like, okay, if you have a problem, they will help you solve it. Because it's really difficult for us to learn calculus and algebra and everything, because everything is so specific and you come from high school, which you don't know anything. You don't know like the formalism, mathematical formalism, so it's difficult in the beginning. But they're really willing to help you. And that's something I really appreciated in my first year. And that's something that didn't happen in the telecommunications engineering. I think that since entering physics is difficult because it's a high grade, then this means that once you enter it, it's hard, but once you go in, then the teachers help you a lot more. And that's something I really liked. And once you step out and continue your career and your bachelor's, everything gets smoother. In the first and second year, you have a really hard topic like mechanics and thermodynamics and electrodynamics and electromagnetism and all this stuff. It's kind of rough.

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Wow, that's funny because here in the US, usually the first two years are easy because you take all those classes that are generic. And then your last two years are the hard years. I didn't know that, I didn't know that.

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But here it's definitely the other way around. Here it's the first and second year are the toughest one. But once you get past to the second, okay, yeah, the level, it gets harder because what you're being taught is harder, but you already know, you have experience dealing with it. You know, you're kind of an expert in problem solving. So the first, I get you ready for problem solving with calculus, algebra, I don't know, fundamental. It's funny, I did three courses on mechanics, fundamental mechanics, mechanics, and then theoretical mechanics. And then we went to electrodynamics and quantum mechanics and all this stuff. So for example, in mechanics, when I arrived the third year, I had already done three courses on them, so I knew all the formalisms, which was easier to handle the hard stuff, you know?

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Yeah, I get that. And I also like that because I feel like it gives you time your last couple years to actually look for a job, you know? Like try to do that networking and get the contacts and understand what it is that the labor market requires.

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It's really common here in Spain to take an internship either in the third and the fourth year. In my case, it was in the third and in the fourth year. It's really common because from the, actually you're not allowed to take internships before the third year. And that makes sense because you're not well prepared enough because here in the internships, in whatever you're lending, they're gonna ask you to do stuff, like real stuff, even if it's science or data science or whatever. So you need to be prepared. So you're not allowed to do it before your second year. So once you finish your second year, you're actually prepared to at least have a taste of how it goes to the working world, you know?

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Yeah, that's really cool. Is that something that the university requires of you to take an internship, or is it something that just everyone just does?

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I don't, it doesn't, no, they don't require it, but I think they should. Like, there's an elective course, where it's like, it's an internship, but they basically don't help you get the internship. So you have to get the internship by yourself, by talking to people, networking or whatever. And then you sign up and you enroll the course. And then you deliver a report of your internship and then that's six credits. And then you have the option of having an extracurricular internship. Because you can only do the curricular internship once, because otherwise you would have 12 credits of internship and that's not legal, right? But you can have extracurricular credits of whatever you want. So for example, I did my extracurricular internship was in the summer of, past summer. And I spent all summer doing internship and that wasn't like anything credit related. But you have to get it by yourself. Like the university organizes events and networking stuff, but you have to get it by yourself. And I think that's something that is really helpful because you have to talk to the people, right? You have to talk to the people and you have to sell yourself. Please, I want to enter this company, please hire me. And that's something we're not taught in college. And it's something that you have to learn for yourself. I know friends, for example, that they haven't had an internship on their bachelor's, it's possible.

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Wow, yeah, that's funny that you say that because here, in my experience in math, we also didn't get that formation, and so we had to go out and find an internship ourselves. And it's not always that easy, and you have to learn how to sell yourself. So, do you want to talk a little bit about sort of how you got your job? Is it where you did your internship at, or?

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Yeah, it's actually a really funny story, because I had to insist a lot to get the job I am now.

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I would imagine that's the case in all Spanish jobs, since, you know, I can imagine the labor market's so great there.

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Yes, I had to work my way. The company I'm working now is a startup company, as I mentioned before, it's called K-Man General, and it's a very promising company working in quantum computing. And when I was in my fourth year, I became interested in, again, what is quantum thing, and then I discovered them. And I started mailing them on February to do an internship on summer. But I didn't get a reply from them. So I kept insisting. And then my university organized this event where Clem and Jai would come and they would have a gathering with the students or whatever. So you had to apply in order to get a chance to speak to the seniors, right? So then I applied and I got accepted. I think partly because they knew that I had been sending emails and whatever. And I made myself very clear that I want to work with them. So then I had the I had this meeting with them with with other fellow students and I got prepared really well for the meeting. I checked the company, I checked what they were doing. I studied a lot. I tried to understand, you know, it was difficult because I didn't have any information but whatever they could do. And then in the meeting, I tried to shine. I tried to show off. I tried to ask a really good questions. And then it worked, it worked because after the meeting, I contact the senior, and this is something everyone should do, after meeting with a senior of the company, you should email them and say thank you for the time and this is my CV and if you want, please contact me, I'm interested in a summer internship, or whatever your goal is. So they reply back and they say they like my profile and they like my questions, and that's how I got my first internship in summer. And I was really happy that I got it, because I really worked hard for it. And it was like a dream to work with them. Then when I finished my internship, then I got accepted in my master's in quantum science and technology here in Barcelona as well. And they were happy with me, so they offered me the opportunity to stay part-time during my studies. Because the master has lectures from September to February, and then we work on our master's thesis. So, but, since that moment, I haven't left. I'm working with them now on my master's thesis, but since past July, I've been working with them and I'm really happy, really happy.

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Wow, so when you said you did this interview, I guess, right, it was like an interview on the spot with them, was this with other students or was it just one-on-one?

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It was, it wasn't actually like an interview. The first touch I had with them

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was like a meeting with other students. I see, like at a booth or something, like they had a table or something.

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Yeah, so like a networking event. So basically it was a general introduction to the company, even though I had done my research, but the meeting itself was a general introduction to the company, and more like a contact with the students that had shown interest to the company. After that is when I emailed the senior, and which is Marta, which is my boss now, and I emailed her and said, hey, thank you for your time, thank you for taking your time to have this meeting with us. I would like to work with you. If it's possible, I would like to do the summer internship. And then she replied back, actually in the beginning she said that she didn't have a, they didn't have a, a position, a back end for me. Yes, a position for me. But after some weeks, she said, in the end we have this bag and if you want it's yours. And that's how, and then I did like a formal interview and I was myself and they talked about my aspirations and whatever I wanted to do, they explained the project and then I agreed and then I started to work with them.

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Wow, and was this internship paid or unpaid? It's funny, here in Spain it's not compulsory

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to pay for the internships. Really? It's something I think it should change.

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Well, here you don't have to pay either. I think like Four Seasons does internships where they don't even pay the people.

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Yes, actually if you're doing your curricular internship, you have to pay for it because it seeks credits, right? So every credit is money. So you have to pay to work, which is kind of insane if you think about it. For the extracurricular internship, you don't have to pay. You just, you can get paid in the case of Cleveland general It's such a nice company that they pay me, but they didn't have to but they did and that's really nice from them Well, it's not it's not common. It's not common. Like I did an internship on my bachelor's and I didn't get paid so Okay

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What? What did the internship teach you that they didn't teach you in school I guess it was my first entering in a company, you know?

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And so this means meetings, it means reporting,

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it means having deadlines and all this stuff. And even though it was in summer, and here in Spain, for example, all hours, everyone was on vacation, but I kept working, it meant this, it meant having a deadline this day and you have to deliver something. Of course, since I was learning, they weren't like so, how you say, they were so rough on me, and they gave me time to understand and to learn because everything was so new. And they're doing really deep tech in Kilimanjaro. So everything, I just started attending meetings when everyone was discussing paper, like cutting edge papers and cutting edge technology, I was like, oh, I'm not understanding anything. So they were really, to this day I still, I'm having trouble understanding the discussion sometimes. But it has improved, indeed.

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So I would say mainly the three points,

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like delivering, going to meetings, and trying to contribute, and then having the deadlines. I would say this is something that, because the most similar thing you have in the college is exam, but exam you have a lot of time to prepare for. Here, for example, you may find yourself that two days from now on, a problem arises and you have to solve it. And that is something that can be stressful, but it's something you really need to learn

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how to deal with it. You know, the thing that you said about contributing, that's something that a lot of interns actually experience. They're interns and they're just learning, but they don't know how they can contribute aside from just doing grunt work. How did you navigate that, and how did you find a way to contribute to your company?

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I mean, to this day, I'm still trying to contribute. I mean, I need something that's not really easy. Because everyone knows a lot more than you. But I don't think, I think we, as scientists, we used to overthink, and we have the imposter syndrome. And I think that's something that is really important. Because most of the time, you don't, we think, okay, I'm not gonna say anything unless it's this groundbreaking revelation or idea. And most of the times I don't think of it like that way. For example, we're in a meeting, most of the times if I don't understand something, I just say, I didn't understand anything, because that, that, that. And this may trigger something, I mean, it may be something that it can really,

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it can be easy to solve,

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or it can trigger something that someone else was thinking about, and it can trigger a really good discussion. So I would say, even as an intern, don't be afraid to ask. Because most of the companies, they will help you and it's something good if you ask, because it means that you're showing interest. And I'm asking a lot of questions, and in everyday meetings I try to follow, and when I don't follow, either I ask privately or I ask in a meeting because I don't want to make lose everyone's time, you know? But it's really important to ask. And someday you'll contribute, and you don't need to rush at all. Because at some point, you will start contributing without even noticing. But don't expect to be the smartest in the room when you're entering a new company, you know?

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Yeah, no way. So I've had a lot of people come sort of tell me that when we're looking for interns, we want someone that is willing to learn and eager and has energy and that kind of stuff. What kind of things are employers looking for in your industry? Because I know that to get into something like quantum engineering or physics or something, you need to have a lot more hard skills than just, oh yeah, I want to learn.

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I think the bachelor prepares you for problem solving. I think it's what it does. Like it can do it in a mathematical way, but it's basically problem solving in a more technical way. This is something I deal with in my daily basis. I try to solve problems. Like either it's a physics problem or a math problem, but it's always problems. The only difference is that I use certain tools that, for example, someone from biology has not been taught, but I don't know the tools that they use in biology. Do you know what I mean? It's always problem solving and critical thinking. That is really important. Like you need to always keep an eye out and trying to find new ways of looking into business stuff. Because in the end, when you're doing research, if that's the word, there's something, there's not discovery, you know? And you need to look into things in different perspectives to try to find a feasible solution. And that is something that we don't realize it, but we've been taught in the bachelors. Like just by, and in the masters as well, just by solving problems all the time. You don't realize it, and then again, you know how to solve things.

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Yeah, yeah, totally. So now I wanna ask you, what exactly do you do in your job? Like what is your day-to-day like, or week-to-week, or you know, whatever?

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In my internship, I entered in a, because a project was coming, a company wanted to optimize their algorithm, they wanted to transform it into a quantum algorithm, or at least they wanted to test and everything. So my first three months in the company was to analyze their problem. Like the company, I can't say the name, so the company that came to the Clemengaro, they wanted to optimize their algorithm, so my first three months was to analyze the algorithm and say, okay, you have to define something called constraints, which is something necessary to define the quantum algorithm. And my first job was just doing that, like trying to understand their problem and asking them questions. So in the end, in September, which is when the project began, we could start programming. So in my three months, I communicated with this company and tried to understand the problem and tried to translate the problem into a mathematical language that we use to program the quantum algorithm. Then from September to February, since I had my lectures from the master, I only was part-time, so I think my role was to do side quests. I wasn't in charge of everything, which is normal because I don't know that much. I was more like side questing. Okay, so I need to do this, then I did this. I need to work on this project. So I was working on two projects. One was the same in the summer, and the other was another one. And for example, in my day to day, in one of the projects, I was a programmer. I was doing unit testing, which is something that a lot of programmers know how to do, which is basically testing code that hasn't really been written, and trying to see what it breaks, and trying to build a robust code, because if you have to deliver code to a company, it needs to be robust. And that's what I did for two months, and then in the other project I worked with, it was related to, how can I say this, writing knowledge about quantum, right? So imagine that a company comes and wants to know a little bit more, so you write a proposal, and you have to explain them very carefully what you're doing so they can understand. So basically you're writing a pitch to a company

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that wants to contract you.

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Yes, I had to contribute to write a report for a company that wanted to know more about quantum computing. And it's something I really liked because I had the chance to learn a lot. I had only started my master's. It was funny, at some point I was writing about things that was being taught in class. And it was challenging, but it was fun. It was fun and I learned a lot. And now I'm working on my master's thesis. So this company actually takes students from my master's as well, and you can write your master's thesis with them. And right now I'm doing a completely different project. I'm working on something, well I'm working on quantum machine learning and related to circuit, the gate based model, whatever. Optimizing the circuit gate model depth. I just started like past week.

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Interesting. So I wanna ask you this real quick about the master's program itself. Does your thesis have to be sponsored by a company? Or can you just write a thesis? Because you said that other people from your master's are working with this company on their thesis. How does that work?

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Okay, the master is a really good master here in Spain, in Barcelona. And they have partnerships with companies and with academic groups and whatever. So, for example, Clement Jarreau is a partner of the master. So they give you the chance to do the master thesis with them, and this is what I did. And I have another fellow student that is doing the master thesis with them, and one that is doing an internship.

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Wow.

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So, now I wanna shift gears a little bit,

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because we have about five minutes left. I wanna ask you, what skills do you need, like what skills did you learn in college that help you now in your job? Or what skills in your job, what skills would make a noob, basically, starting out in your job successful? Okay, I think this is really important. As a physicist, you need to know how to program. For example, in my bachelor's, I only took one course on programming and it was a really introductory level. And I learned by myself, I learned Python and other programming languages, and I think it's really important because in the end, whatever you land, you will use programming, because everyone uses it. And as a physics major, either you go into a theoretical way, even there you have to program. But if you go in something like algorithms or hardware or whatever, you will have to program. So I would say stand out from the people. Like if you find something that you like, try to be really good at it. And do side quests. Like when trying to study your bachelor's, I know it's hard to find time sometimes, but try to do side quests, try to learn new stuff, try to always learn besides your bachelors. And in the end, it will be really helpful when getting a job. Because in the end, we got away, right, with 120 people, and we all have the same bachelors. So what makes you different? That is really important, in order to get a job. Because if you just have the bachelors, you haven't done an internship, you haven't gone, you haven't done Erasmus, for example, or you haven't learned anything new. Erasmus, just for everybody out there,

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Erasmus is an exchange.

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Yes, yes.

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You can do that here in Spain.

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Yeah, it's actually really common.

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Do you want to just touch on that really quick

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about how everyone does that? Not everyone, actually, not everyone.

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But if you do it, I mean, not everyone, because you have to pay for it. You have grants, but they're not enough. So you need to have the money to survive for yourself. And not a lot of people can do that. Luckily I could, but not a lot of people can. And I think it's really, it helps you to grow as a person, to go out and live alone. I mean, here in the US you are living alone everywhere because everything is so far apart from each other. Here in Spain we used to live with our parents until we leave to Erasmus or whatever. It's really good to personal growth. What I was saying is, invest in yourself while doing your bachelor's. That is really important.

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Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, that was something that, I mean, I met you on my exchange, right? And I was 15 and it completely changed everything that I knew. And I mean, it was the single most formative experience of my entire life. And so I could not second that more. Like, if you have the opportunity go do it don't be scared I mean have the confidence that you know it's the greatest decision you can make and so what about like if you could go back and tell John starting on his job like in this job that you have now what would you what would you tell him if I was starting to my job now if you if you could go back and talk to John starting out in your current job, what would you tell him?

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I would tell him to take it easy, to not rush anything, that the knowledge will come just by staying still. Because in the end, I kind of like stressed a little bit because everything was so new, and I wasn't following anything. I would say just relax and everything will come. And this applies to whenever you're entering a new place. Just relax, try to learn as much as you can. You're not dumb. And this is something that really happens to all of us, all scientists. Just try to follow and take your little steps and everything will be fine.

0:26:59
Wow, that's great advice, actually. So, now I want to ask you, what are your career aspirations? Where do you want to go next?

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Okay, my goal right now, I mean, I'm working my thesis and I will finish my thesis on July, in summer. My immediate goal is to stay at Pima-Nigero. I'm really happy here. Everything is great. The people are great and it's a company that is actually growing. Recently it has won a tender to install the first quantum computer in Southern Europe. It was started in Barcelona's supercomputing center.

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I think it's really great.

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Like the company is achieving great stuff.

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Everyone here.

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You're right in the cutting edge, right?

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Yes, exactly.

0:27:47
And I feel excited to be a part of it. You know, I want to contribute. I want to be, that's why I joined this master. That's why I joined Kilimanjaro. I want to contribute. And it's something I'm really excited to be. If I can, and I will say in September, if I'm given the chance. Otherwise, either as a PhD, because here in Catalonia, we have the option of doing an industrial PhD, which means basically you do a PhD, but you do it in a company. When the company is high-tech, as is Kilimanjaro, they do research, right? So you can do your PhD with them, and after four years, you'll be a doctor. And that's really nice. That's something we only have here in Catalonia, and that's a really good option because most of the times, the PhDs you can do at the university are too theoretical, but in this way, you do your PhD in the company for the company. Wow, that's so amazing. It is something I like to do, yes. That's so amazing. Yes, yes, it is, sure. And it's my goal if I can in September, otherwise, try to stay at Climangaro working, and if I cannot stay at Climangero, then I probably look for PhDs at somewhere else.

0:28:55
You know, man, I'm really excited for you moving forward. I think that you're in a really good spot. You're at a really nice company doing cutting edge stuff, and not only that, but Barcelona actually has a very nice sort of culture around startups, too. So it's actually very comparable to the United States over there, and that's kind of really different from elsewhere in Spain. It's kind of a new push. And so I'm really excited about where you're going and what you're gonna do. Yeah, me too, man, me too.

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So, I'll give you, I'll give you, I'll give you the date.

0:29:26
Yeah, please do.

0:29:27
Okay, well, in the interest of time, I'll let you go now. I really appreciate you coming out and giving advice and talking about your journey, and I really, I mean, it's really interesting what you did, and I didn't know. So, thank you. Thanks so much for listening to The Job Forum. If you want any more details or have any questions, visit my website at manaziz.com.

0:29:52
M-A-N-A-Z-I-Z.com. M-A-N-A-Z-I-Z.com.

0:29:54
Welcome to The Job Forum.

Transcribed with Cockatoo