The Job Forum

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You're listening to locally produced programming created in KUNV Studios on public radio. KUNV 91.5.

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Welcome to the Job Forum.

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Job Forum.

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My name is Mana Azizoltani and I am a PhD student at the Harrah College of Hospitality here at UNLV. On this show, we discuss the journey through college and into the workforce with recent graduates of different disciplines. Welcome to the job. All right, well, let's get this party started, Luis. So I'm here with my friend Luis, who is a computer science whiz. And he's actually this semester, he's my partner in crime in our graduate assistantship. So Luis, do you want to give a little introduction? Yeah, yeah. So like Manas

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said, I'm a graduate student in computer science. And this semester, we're working together as a team.

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Big screw ups, yeah. Big screw ups, really, yeah.

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That's all you need to know for now.

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Okay, alright.

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So, do you want to just tell me a little about your story, maybe?

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Alright, sure. So, my story is... Not your life story.

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Yeah.

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Just your story.

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I'll give you my real story, the uncensored content.

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There you go.

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So, I guess, I mean, I was doing nursing at first before I started computer science. You know me, like, I sleep in class, or like, I don't go to class. Dude, honestly, you were meant for computer science, because you really like are the starter pack kid.

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Yeah, pretty much, yeah, pretty much. Like, me and computer science go way back

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to high school and stuff, kinda.

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I took one class. Oh, let's talk about that.

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So where did it start?

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Oh, it started in high school. Actually, some of my friends, they were doing computer science, and that's like where I first got acquainted to it. And I thought it was really cool, so I decided to take a class in Python, which I failed, mostly because I also never

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Did you go to class?

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I didn't go to class, and the teacher was like, so up until like half the semester, I had 100%. I go to see the teacher because for some reason my program wasn't running. I was like, okay, I'll just go see him and see what's up. So I go see him and he's like, who the hell are you? And I was like, well, I'm in your class. And he's like, no, you're not. I was like, I never see you. And I'm like, yeah, because I'm usually not there. It's like your syllabus says it's not required. And then he gets all mad and upset, and I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, just help me out with this problem, don't stretch it. But then as he was reading it, he was being super slow. And this is one of those teachers that types with one finger. He has a doctorate in computer science, but he still uses his index fingers to type. So I'm like, oh shoot, this is hopeless. So actually I figured-

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Is that why you left computer science then?

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That's actually why I left computer science to do nursing. Because I was like, hmm, like yeah, no, I got a sore taste in my mouth. So then-

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But didn't you do like ventures on the side, like when you were younger in high school?

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And that was-

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Oh yeah, so-

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Do you want to tell me about that a little bit?

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Yeah, sure. So basically what I did is like, this is back in the day where like, hmm, what was it? It was E24. So nobody really knows what E24 is, but it's like the original Uber Eats. I think they got acquired by Uber Eats or DoorDash, so one of those. And I was like, oh, this is like a starting market. How hard can it be to make a website? Because every website I looked at, like every restaurant, it was literally like garbage. It was like built in 1975 or something.

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Used Fortran to build it or something.

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Pretty much. It was ugly. It was like one color and text. That's it. No pictures, just one color and text. So I called all these restaurants up and I was like, hey, you guys need a new website or something? And surprisingly, a lot of them said yes.

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Wow.

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So...

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You just started charging them to rebuild their website

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basically. Pretty much, yeah. So I started charging them to rebuild their site and then one of them that is still my client until today, and this is a shout out to all my Latino friends, it's the Venezuelan restaurant, Sovi Velasarepas, I actually built that back in high school. Yeah, I rebuilt it after I graduated and made it more standard, best practices. I built an app for them and stuff. But like back in the day, it was totally bootstrapped. And I actually, I was like, at first, I was like, I'm gonna hire somebody to like build it for me because like I didn't know anything about coding. So like I dealt with like, you know, like freelancers and stuff like that back in high school. So that was a fun time.

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So you had an entrepreneurial mind is what you're saying. Yeah, I had an entrepreneurial mind. I guess yeah, yeah And here we are how many ten years later now working in the entrepreneurship Center. Yeah, pretty much. That's crazy Yeah, so let's fast forward now So we talked about sort of in high school when your ventures and blah blah blah what made you switch from nursing to? Entrepreneurship I get mixed up nursing to computer science Yeah

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so like I said, I was sleeping in class and like every time you like sleep or you're late to class I'm like that was like me every day you get talked to 3% So literally like the second week of like nursing school I was already down like 25% or something like 30% So I had to get a hundred percent on every single exam in order for me to pass because you had you pass with a 70% so literally I had no wiggle room whatsoever. And that happened a couple times. So I got kicked out the first time for the same thing, and the second time I was like, okay, same thing. So I was like, hmm, I need to find something. Oh, and then also, then I was like, screw, I was at CSN, I was like, screw CSN, I'll just go to Nevada State. They're probably chill over there. So I went to Nevada State, and I got-

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It wasn't the case.

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So they were actually chill. The thing is though, is like, everybody made it a big deal about getting into the nursing program and stuff and I was like, it's actually kind of cake to get in and I got in and then I like you know like when you're looking at the bill there is like 15 grand or something and it was like 15 grand to like you know for to like finish the program like you know what I can really just go to you know be actually and like do whatever I want for 15 grand, because at CSN, it's only like 1200 a semester or something, I was like, oh, that's pretty cheap. So that's what I actually was, what I was doing nursing at first, because the semester was only 1200 bucks a month or something. And then it skyrocketed.

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So then when you got to UNLV, you started doing computer science, right? Yeah. What was your experience like at UNLV, going through computer science?

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So, my- Did they make you go to class?

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So, no, actually not.

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So, I never really showed up to class. I mean, I showed up to my CS classes because, you know, that's my major. But, you know, I could sleep, I could like, you know- You worked for you. Sit in the back. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty much my own schedule. And like, I would say I did pretty good. Like, pretty much a lot of my CS classes I got A's in.

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Did you feel like you learned a lot while you were in school or did you already have

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a good base from when you were doing your side hustles? The school teaches you theory and it's way different than the real world. The real world is totally different. Applying what you learn, it gets much easier. So going to school is definitely worth it.

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Is the hard part.

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Yeah, it's definitely worth it, I would say. I would say that was the easy part, actually. Oh, really? Yeah, that was the easy part.

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So why do you say that, then?

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Well, school is pretty much straightforward. You go to class, or if you're like me, you just study the book, and then you do your homework. Take your tests. You know the outcome. In the real world, you don't really know what's going to happen. It's like, it's free for all out there.

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What about just going to your job and doing your job and coming home and isn't that the same thing?

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Yeah, but the thing is though, is you have to get a job and you have to compete with other people that are in the same industry and stuff like that. Yeah, no, it's a man.

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Doggy dog world.

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Yeah, pretty much. Couldn't have said it better myself.

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What are some of the trends in the industry? Are they still in need of software developers or is it kind of tapering off now?

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What's it like?

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Right now, I would say that software development, like, you know, you hear the layoffs and stuff. No, yeah, it's definitely crowded. It's definitely crowded. So, you know, if I were to go back to school, you know, like, I mean, you were back in school? Back in high school. You know, like, deciding what I want to do, I probably would be doing something more like computer engineering, because, you know, you can apply that. And there's actually, you know, you can do a variety of jobs. Like, you can do software engineering, then you can also do computer engineering, and you can delve into electrical engineering. So your prospects increase tenfold. And then if you get your master's, you can also keep doing research in whatever of those subjects, because they all coincide with each other.

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So is it still the case for someone that has a graduate degree in computer science? Is that still the case that it's kind of crowded and saturated?

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Yeah, I would say so. Yeah, I would definitely say so. Wow. The thing is though, is you don't really have to worry about that. I mean, if you're good, you're always gonna get a job. Because like, from my own experience, working with other developers, it's like, yo, are you sure you have a bachelor's, bro?

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You don't know anything?

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Yeah, you know how to C out and C++, but you can't build me this landing page in a day or something like that. So that's why I like the real world. So practically speaking, yeah.

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Practically speaking, yeah, it's a little different. I feel like that's a trend in a lot of industries, not just in computer science. I've had people on the podcast already and they've told me, like, you know, school's good because it teaches you how to learn, but at the end of the day, when you get to the workforce, sometimes you don't know anything. And there's some industries that are better, like accounting, for example, that a lot of times when they get an intern, they know that they don't know anything, so they're nice to them, basically. Is that the same case with computer science? Oh, wait, can you repeat the question? Like, is, so accounting, for example, is nice to the interns because they know that they're coming out of school, they don't really know anything, and so they don't expect a lot from you. But is computer science like that too, or no?

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Yeah, actually, in my specific scenario, after I graduated, I literally went, like I looked at all the listings in Indeed, and this one actually required a senior, it was a senior position at a marketing company. And I submitted my application online, and literally, I was like, you know what, this is literally five minutes away from my house. So I went there, and I was like, yeah, about that position, can you tell me a little bit more about it? And my old boss actually came out, and he introduced himself to me, and then we went to the office and we started talking about it and it was just a WordPress job. And that's what I was doing essentially with like back in high school. This is not something I learned in college at all. But I was so good at WordPress because with all these other site businesses that I was doing, I needed to like.

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You've seen everything under the sun.

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Yeah, pretty much. I was already like...

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Proficient.

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Proficient. So...

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So, okay, do you want to talk more about how you got your job then? So you said that you just applied on whatever.

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Yeah, so I applied in Indy, and literally, next, they gave me an interview the next, I think it was Monday, and they told me to come in on Wednesday, because there's two bosses, like they own 50-50. So they were both there, and we interviewed, and they offered me the position right there. Wow, they didn't ask you any programming questions?

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I know a lot of times I talk to people in computer science and they say, oh, it's the interview, you don't have to prepare for the interview because it's some problem you have to solve, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So they did, they gave me a WordPress one.

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So it was a WordPress programming questions and stuff, which I got 100% there.

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Right, because you knew.

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Yeah, so, yeah, there were actually some, it was actually pretty involved and it was pretty detailed and it was difficult if you don't know WordPress. Right. So, yeah, I got hired as their senior slash lead developer

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there.

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Wow. Just coming out of high school, I didn't even have to apply to all these other places at all. So that was nice and I did that for two years.

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What was your day-to-day like in that job?

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Day-to-day life, at first it was really chill. So at first it was like really easy, mostly because they wanted to catch me up to speed with all the clients. So at first it was like memorizing all the clients, like knowing all the quirks of every client's website and stuff like that. So I pretty much got acquainted with their environment. And then after that, it was like we got new clients and I just had to either build them a new website. And since it was a marketing agency, I was pretty much in charge of doing all the SEO changes needed to be done on the website. So we ran an analysis scan, and then I, like any sort of change, anything. You had to do, basically. I had to do. So anything that ever happened at that company always went through me, because I'm the one doing all the changes. Right. So like, yeah.

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I'm sure you had a ton of experience doing all kinds of things there. It must have been really good for you.

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Oh yeah, no, it was definitely, I got a lot of experience in like back end. I would say my biggest skill that I learned there was like client management and networking. And I would also say it was public speaking because they made a big deal that you needed to know how to talk to clients, and actually that wasn't my forte, I would say, when I got there. Well, you were a starter pack computer science kid.

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Yeah, pretty much.

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You could pretty much guess already how it is, and that literally opened my eyes into a completely new world. The world of sales, the world of marketing, business. And if you combine that all with computer science, you're pretty much like a running company. Walking company, essentially. That's cool.

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I know you mentioned the business skills, right? Are those skills something that is taught in college? Can you get those skills as a computer science student? I mean, I did a degree in math, and we didn't get that at all.

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Oh, no. So I would say you definitely don't at all. Like, in computer science, strictly theory, strictly how to build a linked list, nothing in business whatsoever. Like, I would say, if I could say zero or negative percent, it would be negative percent. I guess the only thing is, maybe, like, you build a project at the end of the semester, and, like, you get to present that project with other people and then you work in a team and then sometimes I guess there's investors walking around there, but that's literally the only sort of introduction to business you ever get.

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How do you think students could strengthen those skills or seek them out in college?

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So the best way would be to start out their own side business themselves. It could be a simple app, it could be learning how to market it, it could be like, build something that you're interested in, like solve a problem, and just go out there and learn how to manage and do everything for yourself at first, like doesn't have to scale all the way up to a million users, can just be like your dad, can be your friends, just tell them to check out your product and learn how to manage it from there. That would be an invaluable experience.

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And even if you fail and go bankrupt, you don't have to go bankrupt, but even if you fail,

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at least you got the skills out of it, right?

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Exactly. You learned how to build it, how to market it, how to sell it, how to...

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That's the thing, you're going to fail. So that's a given, you're going to fail, and you want that. Like you fail, I think this is a quote by Will Smith, like, fail often, fail forward.

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Yeah, that's funny, that's like my dad's biggest lesson in my life to me, is like, dude, it's okay if you fail. Like, don't be scared to fail. As long as you learn from it, you're gonna be fine.

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Exactly, exactly. You can always get back up at the end of the day.

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So the business skills, right, so how can, part of business skills on top of marketing, this and that, is also networking. I'm guessing that you don't have that either. I mean, you can network with your peers, obviously, right?

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So you don't have that either in computer science, I would say. I guess you learn how to network amongst each other, I guess, but pretty much everybody's literally a lone wolf in the computer science sector. It's like, they pretty much have a bubble, kinda. So there's those that are already naturally social butterflies, but for those, it's a skill you have to learn. And I think for me, it's a skill that I was developing, even back in my undergrad, actually, I made it a point to talk to people and make connections and network and stuff. So there's some of that. I wouldn't say it's like a course, or I wouldn't say it's like something that your degree pretty much instills upon you. It's more like if you know that's important, then you go ahead and do it.

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Totally, no, I completely agree. What are some ways you think students couldn't go out and seek out networking opportunities?

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So there's a lot of events. So I would say ACM is a big one. Join the club.

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What is ACM, just so we're clear?

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So ACM is like a national competition for programming. There you go. And that's how you can meet a lot of your other peers that are in computer science, so that's how you can meet your classmates and stuff.

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Or your future business partner.

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Or your future business partner, yeah, exactly. And that's a good way to network in school. Outside of school, I would say there's a lot of business-like networking events, usually at bars or something, and they just pretty much just go in there and they just talk about business or they talk about whatever topic. I would definitely encourage students to just get out of their comfort zone and meet new people. Even if you only meet one person there, there's always going to be one person there that's willing to talk to you.

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Oh yeah, totally.

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And even if not, you can just like, like you're in a conversation, bring a friend, whatever. Yeah. I remember when I was in Barcelona living for three months, I kind of was missing the whole business world and that kind of stuff. So I found a meetup group that was data scientists in Barcelona. And I went there and I talked with the guys all night. And so, just from that, I learned all kind of trends from the industry and whatever. And I have some connections across the world that I have on LinkedIn still. I text them every once in a while.

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I don't know. This thing is actually easier than it sounds. Like, even if you're like an introvert, you'll find somebody that shares similar values to you. And if you don't, there's always the next one. So it's like, it's about that thing about failing but not giving up.

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And in general, people want to meet more people. I feel like if you're at an event that's specifically for networking, people are there to meet people.

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Exactly, to know your audience pretty much.

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Yeah, exactly. We talk about your side ventures back in high school. Now you've graduated, right? And you're back in a master's. I know you have some other side ventures. Do you want to talk about that?

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After I finished, after I left the marketing agency that I was working at, and I built a lot of connections with other businesses through that marketing agency, then I was actually able to pretty much start my own marketing agency, essentially, and pretty much used my networking skills that I got back in college and then work life. And I was able to find other businesses that needed help. So marketing's actually a really expensive, really sought out product. So if they're gonna charge X amount, I was like, then I'll charge half because I know how to do it, I know how to get it done fast. And I have a lot of experience. So I did that for I think a year and a half, and I'm still doing it, and it's going pretty well. I would say it's not as easy as it sounds, so definitely do something you love. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Save me motivation to do it on the day.

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On the ruts, yeah.

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Yeah, exactly.

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But the thing that it does give you, though, is freedom.

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So for me, I have a lot of freedom to pretty much live anywhere I want, sleep pretty much any time. I can work at, I get up maybe at 3 a.m. or something, I can get 30 minutes of work done, and then I can go back to sleep. Pretty much stuff like that. It's pretty great.

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Dude, I don't understand how you do it. I just can't work like that. My days are so structured.

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So that's actually something I'm working on now, mostly because back in college, and you have to have a schedule and stuff. So, yeah.

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And you have to hang out with me.

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Exactly, yeah.

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I have to work around your schedule. That's right. Stuff like that.

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That's cool.

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So, how, I mean, we talk about the importance of your ventures, so I want to talk sort of like learning in general. When you were in high school, you took classes. When you were in college, you took classes. How different is the learning, doing it yourself versus in a classroom? Because we talk about structure, right? Do you want to talk about that?

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Yeah, so for instance, in computer science, when you're learning class, and since you're only learning theory, you pretty much get how everything works under the hood. And that really helps when you want to build something. Once you want to build something, everything pretty much makes sense. Like you know how the framework you want to use works, how it's built. So picking it up is really fast. So that's why I do recommend, if somebody wants to build something, definitely get a computer science degree, mostly because you're able to understand it from the root. And it'll make the process way faster.

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The thing is, a lot of people are good at, they have degrees in marketing or they have sales or this and that but those people that are Great at that are generally lacking the analytical skills like I've noticed that in hospitality for example that these people are amazing at Because you know marketing, but they don't have the skills in analytics, so they they need someone always

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Oh, yeah, that's the beauty of it definitely can find somebody to complement your skills

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And you can fit anywhere to I mean exactly as a programmer or website the web developer or whatever you can go to any company at all.

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Exactly, yeah, and I would say the best part is too, is if you ever want to, I mean, work from home is a big thing nowadays. So actually, I have a friend who I met in California. So actually, after I graduated and I worked for two years and then I started my own thing, actually, I went to live in California for a year and a half too, and I met a friend there, and he was also a software engineer, which he actually was just in California because he was going to sell his truck. But he's actually like traveling around the world. So he literally lives in Colombia. He has like a high rise, like an entire floor for himself, and he's only paying like, I think like $1,000 or $1,500. Something he has like five bedrooms and the capital city and stuff. It's like, he's living the life, essentially.

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Wow, dude, that's nuts.

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Yeah, it's pretty cool.

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I really like that aspect of the freedom, too. That's something that drew me to statistics in the first place. You know, you can go to whatever industry you're interested in, because me, personally, I didn't know what I was interested in. I still don't really know. Hospitality's kind of where I'm leaning, but the beauty is the freedom. I think that's so amazing about computer science, it means statistics. So, but yeah, we're running out of time here, so I want to give you one last chance to give advice to any students that are going through computer science and now are struggling or whatever.

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Yeah, I would say for all students that are doing computer science now, my biggest takeaway is to learn it really well. So once actually, this is a big thing, because, you know, when you graduate, there's a thing that you pretty much say is like production quality code. And that's actually something they don't teach you. Like you can submit your assignment, can be written however you want, but as long as it passes those test cases, you're good. That's like, that's actually, that's something that would change so like for me and like from other Friends or like you know peers that like have graduated from you know be as well or like pretty much anybody that I know in computer science once they graduate and you know, they're out to the real world and Like they're dealing with like code that is way different in quality that they've ever experienced Right. So and then efficiency becomes a thing too. Exactly. So literally, it's like two completely different worlds. And if you don't catch up while you're in college, then it's going to be really hard for you to catch up even during your work life. It's like something else you're going to have to learn. It's going to take a long time because it's really different.

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So to sum up, production level code, business skills, networking, your own venture, and always and above everything, learn from your own failure.

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Exactly.

0:26:34
Well, Luis, thank you so much for coming out and chatting with me. I had a really good time.

0:26:38
Yeah, no problem. You can give me the 100 bucks later.

0:26:41
Yeah, okay.

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We'll see.

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Give you a little handshake.

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Give you a pat on the back.

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How's that? Yeah, for sure.

0:26:47
I'll take that.

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All right, man.

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Thanks so much for listening to The Job Forum. If you want any more details or have any questions, visit my website at manaziz.com. If you want any more details or have any questions, visit my website at manaziz.com. Welcome to The Job Forum.

Transcribed with Cockatoo